8.29.2006

"No Kyle, I don't have any Jewish Candy!"

What is wrong with some people? Is this not the 21st century? Do we not have women in very important roles around the world? Yes, things are not perfect, and yes we have yet to have a women President of the United States.... but we have come a long way baby.

Sometime last week, my friend Melanie had an interesting and enraging conversation with her ex boyfriend Gabe. (I asked her if I should changes names to protect the innocent, but she said no). I am glad that she decided to share this with me, because now I truly know how ignorant this kid really is:



Round 1:
Fight!

Gabe: Did you ever go to temple with me?

Melanie: I don't think so

Gabe: Oh ok, cuz I'm thinking about switched temples

Melanie: Oh

Melanie: Ok, why?

Gabe: I don't like the direction my temple is headed

Gabe: My rabbi and cantor retired

Gabe: And now it's not to my liking

Melanie: And what diection are they heading>?

Gabe: Female rabbis, sing songy guitar crap

Gabe: Way too reform for my taste

Melanie: Why are female rabbis bad?

Gabe: Because you're not supposed to have female rabbis

Melanie: Says you

Gabe: No, says the old testament

Gabe: Come on now

Melanie: Whatever

Melanie: there is a female pastor in the episcopal church

Gabe: I don't care about that... I don't know anything about the Episcopal
church

Melanie: Well then i don't care about your rabbi/temple

Gabe: What the hell is your problem?

Melanie: I'm Episcopalian, Moron

Gabe: What does any of this have to do with my Judaism?

Gabe: There are three sects of Judaism, orthodox, conservative, and reform

Gabe: My temple was conservative

Gabe: Now it's reform

Gabe: So most of the congregation left

Gabe: You asked me why, I told you why

Melanie: Wow

Melanie: Calm down

Gabe: And now you give me attitude and a hard time about it

Melanie: I'm just saying that it's insulting to me for you to comment on
something that you clearly know nothing about...i don't know so i don't
care...great attitiude to have

Melanie: Very worldly of you

Gabe: I clearly know nothing about the jewish faith?

Melanie: And people wonder why there are problems in the world

Melanie: No

Melanie: You know nothing about my faith

Gabe: We weren't talking about your faith!

Melanie: I brought up the high ranking female in the Episcopal church as an
example that, although it is not highly looked upon, she is there and doing a
damn good job

Gabe: That has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm even talking about

Melanie: to which you responded that you don't know anything about the
episcopal church and therefore don't care

Gabe: Because it has absolutely no relevance to my point

Melanie: MY point is that times are changing

Melanie: If you can get over yourself and see my point of view for a moment

Gabe: Right.. but not if you are a conservative sect~!

Melanie: This would be why I never argued with yout

Gabe: Forget it.. you are missing my point all together

Melanie: Its not worth it

Gabe: No it's not worth it

Melanie: THE EPISCOAPL CHURCH IS A BRANCH OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH...HELLO CONSEVATIVE!!!

Gabe: IT'S STILL NOT JUDAISM

Melanie: Holy shit

Melanie: Forget it

Gabe: See ya

::DING DING::
End of Round 1

(Ari and I discuss this conversation)
Ari: Good Lord! Who is this Gabe guy!
Me: He's an ex-boyfriend that I guess she still "talks" with. I thought you would find him "interesting".
Ari: I find him irrational.
Me: lol. Tell me more.
Ari: Well it's just what Melanie pointed out, his inability to see across literal lines that she was giving an example of how the Episcopal Churches are going through the same thing that Conservative Judaism is. But because her example wasn't another conservative synagogue, it was irrelevant... that's irrational and narrow minded thinking.

Round 2:
Fight!

Melanie:

Look, I don't want to argue... I think you are missing my point... My temple
was known for doing things one way. It's the temple I grew up in, where I
had my Bar Mitzvah, where I had my confirmation. Whether that means
something to you or not, it doesn't matter. Things are shifting now, not
just the rabbinical positions, the choir was replaced with a guitar, the
front office is now doing things differently. The congregation no longer
meets my needs. So I'm seeking other ones. That's all there is to it. This
has nothing to do with any other religions and their practices or anyone
else for that matter. This has nothing to do with politics or social change.
So either accept my own feelings towards my own faith, and if not, you are
in no position to argue it because it's not something that can be argued.
Thanks.

-Gabe

Gabriel Gabriel Gabriel…

I do not want to argue either, nor was that my intention from what i was saying, or trying to say yesterday. in no way am i ostracizing you for wanting to change your temple – do what you want to make yourself spiritually happy. my point was that many religions are changing to keep up with the times, hence the high ranking female in the episcopal church. that was all – nothing else! if you would like to continue to attend a conservative temple, by all means knock yourself out…i was just trying to point out that many religions are making some subtle (and some not-so-subtle) changes to keep up with the demands of their congregations. if most of your congregation left as a result of the female rabbi and change of cantors, then perhaps those that run the congregation were not in tune with the current members and were trying to reach out to new members – that is neither right nor wrong – just a change.


The thing that you said that made me mad was that you do not know anything about the episcopal church and therefore do not care about it’s principals and policies. how can you write to me about how i should care about the changes in your current temple when you have blatantly stated that you could care less about my religion – that is pure ignorance! and it is a matter of political and social change that we are discussing as religion is both a political and social matter regardless if people try to separate church and state and argue that religion does not necessarily dictate society.

i have never questioned or argued your faith nor will i ever. if you want to make the argument that the old testament states that there cannot be a female rabbi that is fine – but remember that the old testament also stated that you should sacrifice your first born son, you can sell off your daughters, and have multiple wives. by all means i am not discrediting how you would like to interpret the old testament, i’m merely stating that people are typically not following said scripture word-for-word. change can be good if you give it a chance, but you certainly do not owe it that if you do not want to – i was just trying to get you to think outside the box a bit.

this brings me to my last point – debating with you is impossible. you refuse to consider my point of view on anything that you have a strong opinion about. this is why i think a lot of our im conversations tend to lack substance – i don’t feel like i can bring up my feelings on any major issue without you trying to blast them out of the water. a healthy debate can be a wonderful, brain stimulating thing, but it will never work if one party flat out refuses to consider what the other party is trying to state. yes the point of a debate is to try to prove one’s point, but how can you prove something wrong that you don’t even stop to consider as valid?


:: DING DING::

END OF ROUND 2


Me: The Melanie and Gabe saga continues...

Ari: Oh boy, So I guess he doesn't understand empathy.

Me: No He's an idiot.

Ari: I would say Melanie more than understood.

Me: Right, he just doesn't care.

Ari: Douchebag. I like Melanie, she's a smart person.

Ari: I get the sense that Gabe is like this in other forums, other than religion.
Me: According to her he is. Luckily, I have never met him.


ROUND 3
FIGHT!!

Melanie,

Alright, I think this has been one big misunderstanding. So I think we ought
to end this topic. But to clarify, when I said I don't care about the
Episcopal church, that was not a personal attack on you. You did not make it
clear to me that you were drawing parallels with the two religions. I
understand times are changing and lord knows I'm changing with them, believe
me, I live in SF for crying out loud. For future reference, any deep
conversations should not be discussed online. Too much gets left out and too
many people get upset and say things they probably shouldn't. Anyway, I'm
going to end it here and apologize for offending you with my unintentional
"I don't care" remark.



::DING DING::
END OF ROUND 3

Ari: Well that was almost mature.
Me: LOL

WINNER AND STILL CHAMPION: MELANIE.

C'mon now, did you think that idiot would win?

Posted by Julie at 10:03 AM

1 comment:

Anonymous said...

damn straight! go me! and i especially like the paly-by-play breakdown between you and ari that you added at the end of each round :o)

11:11 AM

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